Hi, I'm Jonathan Lehman.

Yeah, you are.

And I'm sitting here with...

Mark, Devere.

Is this going to be like participatory, Mark?

Or is this like distracted doing...

Some viewers think I sound caffeinated and they want to call them, Mark.

Okay. Welcome to this episode of Nine Marks, Pastors Talk, S-apostrophe.

Nine Marks exist to equip church leaders with a biblical vision and practical resources for building healthy churches.

Practical wreaths pieces?

I could use some of those.

Learn more at 9Mark's.org.

One of the harder things in these conversations, Mark, is getting you to talk about things

that you do really well, but you kind of do them intuitively.

I've heard sports commentators say,

why don't you sit around and talk to me about it for half an hour?

Well, I think I might, at least one of those things.

It's sort of like when you're asking the great golfer, hey, how do you do that swing?

And I don't know, I just swing it.

It's intuitive.

But we're going to try here, okay?

You're ready?

...