Welcome to the Bear Marriage podcast. I'm Sheila Ray Gregor from Bear Marriage.com, where we talk about healthy evidence-based biblical advice for your sex life and your marriage.

Rebecca's here with me right now.

Hello, hello. We're going to do a big interview and then you're going to come back at the end. So you're just here for a little bit. But one of the reasons you're here is because something really exciting is happening next week. We are launching a deep dive series that Joanna and I have been working on for a year now. Mostly Joanna. I have to give credit where credit is due. Joanna has done an astounding

amount of research, and we are doing a deep dive series into the love and respect multiverse,

as we've been calling it. This whole concept, we're looking at the book, the conference,

the teachings, how they affect people, what the research actually says, whether the research

was any good, and if the

theology really holds up. And we've been talking for a while about wanting to be able to try

to reach people outside of our typical audience. And this is really a big goal for that,

is we tried to do it in a way where, you know, maybe YouTube will actually throw it in people's

algorithms and stuff who are used to watching religious deep dives and all that. So we're excited. That's going to come next week. It's going to be on this podcast, but only the first episode. After that, you're going to have to listen to the Good Fruit Faith podcast channel. If you're watching on YouTube, we'll be cross-posting on both channels on YouTube. But if you're listening, then you'll have to sign up for the Good Fruit Faith podcast channel.

And we'll put the link in the podcast note so that you can join up next week. And yeah, that's coming. And so now I want to bring us our interview. And then we'll come back and we have some more to talk about. Well, I am so thrilled today to bring on Dr. Stephen Tracy, who is the author of a new book,

which is really important. It is called To Heal or Harm, and I'm going to let you give the

subtitle.

Scripture's use as poison or medicine for abuse survivors.

Perfect. Thank you for being here.

Glad to.

Yeah, I really, I really appreciate this book, you know,

because we've done so much on the Bear in Marriage podcast talking about how evangelicalism does not handle abuse well. And what you've done is you've written this book that is so grounded in

scripture, that is so accessible to even

your most complementarian pastor. You know, you're just saying, let's get back to what scripture

actually says and let's show you how the main message in scripture is to stand up for the

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