I think that when people have an expansive faith experience to the outside, to the maybe Orthodox member, it looks like they're falling away.

And people may think that about me right now as I'm expanding and changing how I approach church,

but what they may not understand is that I have never felt closer to God than I do right now.

And my relationship is deeper and more enriching than it ever has been.

And so we have this fear of changing how we do church.

But I think that when you really dig deep into it, it is such a beautiful deepening experience.

Hi, I'm Cynthia Winward.

And I'm Susan Hinkley.

And this is at last she said it.

We are Women of Faith discussing complicated things. And the title of today's episode is, What Do You Say? Three Conversations about Holy Envy, Uncertainty, and Forgiving Yourself. Hello, Susan. Hello, Cynthia. I'm looking forward to these conversations today, but can I take a second for housekeeping before we start?

Please.

I wanted to let listeners know that this is our second to last episode of our regular season episodes for season 11.

We'll have one more next week.

And then we're going on summer vacations, Cynthia.

Summer vacation. There will be more. We haven't finished with all of our, what do you say? next week and then we're going on summer vacations Cynthia.

Summer vacation.

There will be more, we haven't finished with all of our What Do You Say?

Interviews yet and so there will be some what do you say dessert over the summer and that will show up in the form of bonus episode.

And then we will have a few other bonuses. And we hope that people will hang with us

for the bonuses and come back with us when we resume in early fall, I guess, late summer, early

fall. Yeah, not going to, not going to pin any dates down on that yet. I also wanted to thank

listeners. We, people may have noticed we've had a

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