And so when I became increasingly uncomfortable with women's roles in the church and began to speak up more in Relief Society, my heart would pound and I would feel all this tension because I could get the vibes of how uncomfortable it made people with me directly.

That even though these institutional, structural things were not about my visiting teacher

or my Relief Society president or my friends, it was perceived as such. It would become so personal

and people would think that any challenge to inequality was a direct hit to them.

Hello, I'm Cynthia Winward.

And I'm Susan Hinkley.

And this is at last she said it.

We are Women of Faith discussing complicated things.

And the title of today's episode is,

Reclaiming Your Voice, a Conversation with Katie Ludlow Rich.

Welcome, Katie. Hello, Katie. So happy to be here. Thank you. We are excited to have you for many

different reasons, but I remember, I can't remember where I heard you speak on another podcast,

or anyway, I just said to Susan, we have to have Katie on.

She could talk about wallpaper paste. I don't even care. Like she's, she's so articulate.

Let's just have her come on and name the topic. And so I think that's kind of exactly how this

episode came about is you wanted to tell your story about how you reclaimed your voice. And so we're really

excited to have you on to talk about that today. Well, thank you. Susan is going to lead the

conversation today. So go ahead, Susan. Katie, would you mind starting just by giving us a short,

basic kind of intro to who you are? just so it situates us at the beginning

of the conversation for our listeners. Yeah, I am a writer, an independent scholar of Mormon

women's history. So I'm the co-writer of the book 50 Years of Exponent 2, which is an original history and selected works from the longest running independent Mormon women's publication.

And I'm also a ghostwriter and developmental editor.

...