Hi, this is Jonathan Lehman.

This is Mark Devere.

Welcome to this episode of Nine Marks Pastors Talk.

Nine Marks exists to help pastors build healthy churches learn more at nine marks.org.

And today we have a special guest with us, Dane, I believe you've been on before.

Dan Orland, you've been here, right?

Correct.

One other time, yep.

Pastor of Naperville, Presbyterian Church.

I think the last time you were on, we were discussing perhaps gentle and lowly.

Is that what we talked about?

Yep, that's right.

And this time, however, you've written a little booklet for us in our church questions series called

Is Hell Real?

It's a 5 to 6,000 word booklet and treatment of this topic of Is Hell Real?

Let me ask you first, Dane.

When we asked you to write this, why did you say yes?

Why did you think this was a good use of your time to address?

It is always great to talk with you, Mark and Jonathan.

Thank you for being my friends.

Because I am underdeveloped and thinking about it, I lack a sufficiently acute, vivid, close, felt apprehension of the horror of hell.

And if I lack it, I'm pretty sure most of my people do.

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