This is Jonathan Lehman.

This is Mark Devere.

Welcome to this episode of Nine Marks Pastors Talk,

where I will be trying not to slur my words.

Why do you say that?

If you listen to the first one of these interviews, you would know.

Just keep going.

Nine Marks exists to help pastors build healthy churches to learn more at nine marks.org.

The first one of these was with our special guest, John Piper.

That's right.

In which he offered helpful feedback.

John was talking with us about preaching.

That's right.

You and I talked about if we've got John here for a couple of interviews, what would be interesting for pastors?

And I just reflected,

like, if you're on vacation, you go to church, there's an hour-long service, likely the first

30-minute's going to be singing, and the second 30-minute's going to be a sermon. That's just

standard. It seems like, an American evangelical churches. Which we would want to contest a little

bit because, hey, you should be spending more time praying. Yeah, there are a number of things we'd contest. We'd like reading the Bible.

But no, I think you're right.

A lot of it is going to be on those two things.

One thing I meant to ask you, John, in that conversation about preaching, I'm just throwing

...