Episode #21: A Debate over Clapper Between Jameel Jaffer and Benjamin Powell

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 12 November 2012

⏱️ 57 minutes

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Summary

Lawfare's Alan Rozenshtein hosts a debate over Clapper v. Amnesty International between ACLU attorney Jameel Jaffer and Benjamin Powell, one of the godfathers of the FISA Amendments Act.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair
0:07.2	podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair, that's patreon.com slash
0:16.8	LawFair. Also check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair
0:25.6	no bull, and the aftermath Hello and welcome to the LawFair podcast. I'm Benjamin
0:48.6	Wittis. In today's episode, a debate over Clapper V. Amnesty International, warrantless wiretapping,
0:56.2	the FISA Amendments Act, and standing. LawFair's Alan Rosenstein sat down with the ACLU attorney
1:03.5	who recently argued this important case before the Supreme Court. He also talked with one of the
1:09.2	lawyers most responsible for the passage of the FISA Amendments Act itself. This is an unusually
1:15.4	long episode of the podcast as it involves not one but two in-depth interviews as well as a
1:21.9	segment providing necessary background information. Enjoy. On Monday, October 29th, the Supreme Court
1:29.6	heard oral argument in Clapper. The case asks whether a group of human rights organizations,
1:34.8	lawyers, activists, and journalists have standing to challenge a Congressional-authorized warrantless
1:40.0	government surveillance program. We'll hear both from Jamil Jaffer of the ACLU and from Benjamin
1:45.6	Powell, former General Counsel of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and one of
1:50.7	the Godfathers of the Challenge Law. But first a little background. The program at issue stems from
1:56.6	a set of amendments enacted in 2008 to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA.
2:02.9	FISA generally requires the government to get a warrant from the FISA Court before intercepting
2:07.4	foreign intelligence communications in the United States. The government has to demonstrate
2:11.9	probable cause that the target of the surveillance is a foreign power or agent of a foreign power.
2:17.2	The government is also required to apply minimization procedures to avoid picking up and keeping
2:22.4	the communications of U.S. persons that are not related to foreign intelligence.
2:27.0	FISA was enacted in 1978 as a response to domestic surveillance abuses by the CIA and other
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