something like heroin, about 25 to 30% will become addicted, again a minority.

So any of these drugs, a minority of users, will have a problem.

That's one aspect, but we have to also understand that if most of the people who use a drug

don't become addicted, then we can't blame the drug for causing addiction.

I'm so honored to be joined today on Bad Faith Podcast by a psychologist and neuroscientist

at Columbia University. Dr. Carl Hart, he's known for his research on drug abuse,

drug addiction, his advocacy for decriminalization of recreational drugs,

and his recreational use of drugs like heroin, Dr. Hart, welcome to the podcast.

Hey, thank you for having me. It's such a pleasure to be here with you. You're my sort of heroes

out here. Thank you for being out here. Well, look, the feeling is mutual. I can't tell you how

many people who are listeners to this podcast have been writing to me for months, recommending

that I have you on the show. And so I'm so grateful that you're able to do this. I want to start by

asking, go ahead, please. No, no, no, I'm just grateful for your listeners. That's all.

Well, you have a lot of them. And I was going through some of your interviews leading up to this.

And you have the great distinction of hitting the interview jackpot, which is going on.

The Joe Rogan show obviously you've been on with Trevor Noah. What I've noticed as a pattern

through some of these interviews is the disproportionate focus, I think, and interest that people have

in the idea that you yourself admit as it were to using not just recreational drugs, which I think

many of which are pretty common at this point, especially when talking about marijuana or whatever.

But drugs like heroin, which still have a significant amount of stigma attached to them,

what do you make of that interest? Do you think it's just pure ant or there's something more

substantive there? Well, so let's just be clear. Heroin is a recreational drug. Just like

...