In my personal experience, I have found that acknowledging ambiguity makes you as an interlocutor seem a lot more trustworthy and a lot more human.

And on a case by case person by person perspective, much more persuasive.

So I remember at one point during the Bernie campaign, we were canvassing and went into a beauty salon.

And the young woman I was with, no shade to her, she's a lovely person.

But it was younger and I think had a more activist perspective on the issue.

Kind of burst into the beauty salon, in front of these women saying, hey, do you care about abortion?

Bernie's pro-abortion, you should have the right to have an abortion, an abortion, an abortion, an abortion.

And the women, the predominantly black women in their 30s, 40s, and 50s, exclusively black women, but in their 30s, 40s, and 50s.

I could see how uncomfortable they were.

They were uncomfortable, this is my read of the situation.

I can't say what's in their mind specifically.

But it seemed to me that they were uncomfortable at the presumption that they specifically might care about abortion as a priority.

And the stereotyping of black women as loose and the primary folks that get abortions and

stereotypes about the black men and virility and all those other kinds of things that made them uncomfortable.

Uncomfortable at the idea of talking about something as a community that is disproportionately religious, that has religious implications for them and their families.

And my friend and co-canniser presumed that because we're left and we're black and black people are Democrats, that this was going to be not a sensitive issue.

And I see that all the time and I completely agree with you that I think that writers like Katha,

a lot of more elite feminists take an approach that is not always so useful to the movement.

At the same time, I completely understand why it is that people are reluctant to open the door to conversations about moral ambiguity because we just had a Supreme Court.

But I would argue did not make a sufficient case in the decision, did not make the case themselves for why it is that they are overturning Ro.

Outside of what you might project onto them, which is a religious motivation.

And at core of that, I think is this question that you presented, which is whether or not you have to have a determination about when life begins to have a position on abortion.

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