There were times that I felt annoyed at Zander for even suggesting that we go to therapy.

Yeah. Like again, it's like even with my belief in therapy even as a therapist, there was that little voice in the back of my head

where I would hear Xander say, like, can we go to therapy to get help with this?

And it would just sound like an insult to me.

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks Podcast.

We're your host Vanessa and Zander Marin.

I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience.

And I'm just a regular dude.

We share the ups and downs in our relationship

while giving you step-by-step techniques for improving yours.

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Surprise we are back in couples therapy.

Damn, couples therapist and husband in couples therapy.

We sure are.

We would have thunk it.

Yeah, we're doing a very different kind of episode today.

...