Welcome to Second and Command, brought to you by COO Alliance, where top-level COO-O-O-O-Sher insights,

where top-level COO-S share the insights, tactics, and strategies that made them the chief behind the chief.

And now here's your host, Cameron Herald. Michael Wirthheim is a leader in the digital media with more than 15 years of

experience driving a rapid growth in monetization at digital media businesses.

Wertheim is currently the C.O. and Monetization at Digital Media Businesses.

Wertheim is currently the C.O.

of Fatherly, a media company for Dads.

Michael's previous experience includes being the general manager

of Entertainment Weekly Digital and Head of Audience Development, Business Development and Strategy for Upworthy.

Prior to joining Father Lee, he was consultant for dozens of media companies including National Geographic, New York Media, and the New York Times.

Michael has a BA from Harvard University and an MBA from Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Why those are schools that I couldn't even spell.

So I'm looking forward to learning from you.

Michael, welcome to the Second and Command podcast.

Thanks for joining us.

Thank you so much for having me.

Dude, you're smart.

I went to good schools, yeah. You went to good.

No, you like, did, was school easy for you or did you have to work at it?

I had to work at it.

I definitely was one of those people who had to work at it. I definitely was one of those people who had to work at it and

and business schools especially a lot of people say business school is really

...