I am Ryan McKnight. I'm Kara Santa Maria. I am Christopher Smith. Hi, I'm Andrew Torres. This is

Naked Mormonism. The Serial Mormon History podcast. With how busy everything is leading up to Sunstone and the live show at Squatters,

last week I told all of you that I'll just, you know, I'll keep you entertained for a couple of weeks

while we depart from our regular historical timeline.

Well, I'm confident you guys will enjoy what I've got in store for you.

Will Bagley is a BYU-educated

Western American historian who David Roberts called the sharpest of all thorns in the side of the

Mormon historical establishment. He's written more than 20 books on American history in and out

of Mormonism, and he's a frequent contributor to Mormon think and the Salt Lake Tribune,

and his many books, including the Mormon Rebellion, so rugged and mountainous, and Blood of the

Prophets have won a number of distinguished awards from numerous historical societies. And I'm ashamed

to say this, but I've just finished reading the Blood of the Prophets. It's taken me far too long,

and Will has been kind enough to give us some of his time today to talk about Mormon history. Will Bagley, welcome to the show, and thank you

for joining us. Great to be here. You're a natural for this blogging business. You think well

on your feet. And I am staring now with a blank deer in the headlights stare up. Thank you. Well, you know, I have to say I'm extremely excited to speak with you today after reading Blood of the Prophets. And I have a central focus that I want to kind of wrap our conversation into today. And the way that we're going to format is this.

We're going to spend the episode today talking about Joseph Smith's Theocracy. And then we'll

spend the next episode talking more on Brigham Young and the Utah Mormonism, where I know that

your specialty definitely kind of shines. So before we get into all of that and all the technical

details and all the boring history stuff, Will few people are as acquainted with the Mormon

historical establishment as you are in your 25 plus years of writing American history. So I want to

ask you the most pressing question to kind of break the

ice here. Will, who made you angry? You know, what did somebody do to you in the church to make you

...