I think tone is important in the independent movement.

You have a lot of people who are just angry and they're always going to be angry and

they're going to beat up on the parties.

I don't know that that helps us a lot because the reality is candidates today in incumbents

are responding to the incentive structure that lets them keep their job.

And we all do that in every walk of life.

If you're a street sweeper or a doctor, you do the things that let you keep your job

and get ahead.

And so we can beat up incumbent Republicans and Democrats for their behavior, but it's

not going to change anything because they're acting rationally within the system.

If we can change the system, we will change their behavior.

And that's where the independent space is contributing so much to the politics of the

country.

It is my pleasure and privilege to welcome to forward one of the biggest leaders for

independent politics in the country.

You might know him from NBC and MSNBC where he's an analyst.

Former member of Congress out of the state of Florida, David Jolly.

Welcome David.

Andrew, it's great to finally be with you on your podcast.

Congrats on this, by the way.

Oh, thanks brother.

So you and I got to know each other when you were heading something called the Serve

...