this world is run by an elite that has this solidarity with each other.

Again, their interests may align or conflict moment to moment, and it doesn't matter.

What matters is their power and that they have it and that that doesn't change.

And so that to me is really the lesson of the Epstein files.

I've seen firsthand, you know, all this reporting and then nothing ever happens.

Why is that?

Well, now we're finally starting to get a look at sort of the mechanics that explain

what's gotten so badly broken in our society and in our world more broadly.

Thank you. Hello and welcome to Tech Won't Save Us, made in partnership with The Nation magazine.

I'm your host, Pyrus, and this week my guest is Ed Niedermeyer. Now, if you're a regular listener to the show, you will hopefully be familiar with Ed by now, because he has been on the show many times to talk about Tesla and Elon Musk, autonomous vehicles, all these other things. And he is back once again. Of course course if you're not familiar with him he

is the author of ludicrous the unvarnished story of Tesla Motors and is working on

another book at the moment and he's also a co-host of the Atonicaast but I wanted to

have him on this week because obviously Jeffrey Epstein is you know very much in the

conversation the past couple months because of these Epstein files.

And of course, we know that Elon Musk has had some association with Jeffrey Epstein for a while.

You know, we have known about the emails where Elon Musk is kind of asking about going to Epstein's Island and trying to figure out the best time to go do that.

But these documents that are out there now reveal a lot of other information about the relationship

between these two men, how it developed, and whether much ultimately came of it.

And the good thing about talking to Ed about this is that because he knows so much about

the history of Tesla and Elon Musk, there are a lot of things that he could kind of glean from

the files that were maybe not, you know, expressed outright.

Things about certain business dealings and relationships between other people that might have

...