I'm with Jonathan Alford, everybody. Welcome to Watkins. Welcome. Thank you for being here.

Really excited to talk to you about your new book. Thanks for having me.

So your book, Therapy Nation, tell us, why did you write this?

That's a great question. And I think to understand why I wrote the book, we probably have to go back to 2012 when I wrote an op-ed piece in the in the New York

Times called In Therapy Forever Enough already. So that piece came out and it made quite a splash.

It was highly polarizing. We had therapists from around the world sending me hate emails,

asking how I could possibly write a piece.

They thought I was really like implicating the profession as being problematic in society,

which, interestingly, I still feel that way even stronger today.

But the piece was really polarizing to the point where NYU,

a commencement speaker there, talked all about it in a negative way. My alma mater,

they banned me from a networking group that I belong to. And my own colleagues, they put together a petition to present to

the state to try to get my license revoked unsuccessfully. But it really spoke to like how

important that piece was. And in that piece, all I was calling for is if you're in therapy

and you're not getting better, you may want to

evaluate the treatment that you're getting. And one of the things that I said in that article was,

would you continue to go back to a hairdresser if you didn't like the cut that you were getting?

Or would you go continue to see a fitness trainer if you weren't getting in shape? Probably not. And the

standard should be the same for therapists, but it wasn't. And fast forward a decade or so, and I actually

thought the problem was getting worse, not better. And when I started to write Therapy Nation,

I realized that this is about much more than just

bad therapy. This is about the effects that therapists have on people and how they go out

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