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That's kind of conversation between soul.

That's conversation

to resolve and the night. Hello, American Hello, American

I'm joined as always by my friend and comrade Danny Bessner,

and we are very pleased to welcome back to the program,

returning champion. Greg Grant, and he is the Woodward Professor of History at Yale and author most recently of America, America, a new history of the new world. Greg, thank you so much for coming back to the show. Oh, thanks for having me. It's always fun. It is always fun. I wish we weren't talking about what we're talking about

today, which is, of course, the U.S. invasion or kidnapping of Nicholas Maduro, invasion of

Venezuela, whatever you want to call it. But let's start with, I mean, we've done a couple of

quick, you know, kind of specials about this already or bonus episodes about this already.

Let's take the view,

you know, what's done is done. We can talk about the operation. We can talk about what it means

in a deeper sense. But I'm more curious what you make of what Venezuela is right now. It seems to be in a liminal space between a colony and a sort of

independent nation with U.S. forces still masked around it. And basically the message to

Delsi Rodriguez is you'll govern this place the way we want you to or else.

So I'm not quite sure what to call it.

...