Hey folks, welcome to the Dark Horse Podcast live stream our 16th. We have heard you internet

loud and clear and we promise you more cat bell is coming not only more frequency of the rings

but higher amplitude so stay tuned for that. I am sitting with Dr Heather Hying, we have many

things planned for today. We are going to have a discussion that will last for whatever period of

time at last and then we will switch, we will take a break and then we will switch to another

link which will be findable in the description to this video at which we will take your superchat

questions. So you can file those questions during our discussion here and then we will take as many

of those as possible and then switch to superchat questions filed in the Q&A. All right.

I thought we would start today by talking about the catastrophic meaning making crisis that we

are facing and what we might do to bootstrap our way out of it. Let's do it. All right. So the place I

want to start is this. As many of our longtime listeners and followers will know, I am an evolutionary

theorist. Now people do not generally have a good grasp though on what theorists actually do and I

must say there's something about the term theorist that when I hear somebody describe themselves as

a theorist I roll my eyes just like everybody else. But nonetheless theorist is how I understand my

my scientific role and what it means is that there are some tools in the theorist toolkit which I

believe are not well understood by most people that I think are actually vital to the crisis that

we find ourselves in now. Let me just say that although this isn't sort of where I thought we might

be going that when I hear theorist and you are indeed an evolutionary theorist I don't I'm not

really like I can play along but it's not really what I do. I'm more of an empiricist and I think

of those two things as counterpoint to one another and both as necessary and I don't know if you

see these two approaches as sort of compatible with one another but very much describing different

parts of the process. Is that what would you say so? 100 percent each necessary to the other. In

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