Hello and welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westervelt. We are bringing you today another one in our

Drilling Deep series from Adam Lewinstein, where Adam talks to authors of interesting new books

on climate or politics or the combination thereof.

Today, a conversation with Karen Elliott House, author of the new book, The Man Who Would Be King, Muhammad bin Salman, and the Transformation of Saudi Arabia.

Of course, Saudi Arabia, as Americans, are being reminded these days, is not the only increasingly authoritarian nation reliant on oil extraction, determined to disrupt global climate negotiations or obsessed with energy ravenous AI.

But as Pulitzer Prize winning reporter and former Wall Street Journal publisher, House makes

clear, it is a crucial one. House has been traveling to Saudi Arabia for more than four

decades and has borne witness to both its power and its contradictions. She spent hours

interviewing the Crown Prince and other Saudi

officials for this book. But House also has, quote, a number of personal friends who have

literally disappeared without any official explanation, she writes. In June, Adam Lowenstein spoke with House about how Saudi Arabia has changed under the crown prince. Whether MBS's gamble on economic and social freedoms alongside civil and political repression is politically or environmentally sustainable. How Saudi Arabia's oil and petrochemical

industries serve its geopolitical interests, and why the kingdom's promises about transitioning

away from fossil fuels might be a bit less green than climate advocates would hope.

That conversation is coming up after this quick break.

So you've been, I learned in the book, you've been going to Saudi Arabia for more than four

decades.

And I'm curious what originally piqued your interest about the kingdom.

The first time I went was in May of 1978 and Sadat had been to Jerusalem in

November of 77. So the Middle East was a big issue and the foreign editor of the Wall Street

Journal told me, go see these places you're going to write about.

So I went to Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Saudi Arabia.

And Saudi Arabia then was a more normal country

...