Hello and welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westervelt. This week we are bringing you a special

follow-up episode from our Carbon Bros collaboration with the show Non-Toxic. Daniel Penny's complete interview

with progressive Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayat. El-Sayat is running for Senate in Michigan, and his own pathway to climate

and his take on empathetic masculinity is a real breath of fresh air these days. I hope you

enjoy their conversation as much as I did. Here it is. Thank you so much for coming on Carbon Bros.

It's a pleasure to have you.

And I think I'm one of many podcasts that you've been appearing on.

You've been doing the rounds, which is good to see. It's a theme that comes

up quite a bit in the first episode of this mini-series that Amy and I have been working on.

And even your ad, actually, for your campaign, there's a podcast features quite prominently,

and we'll talk a little bit about that later in our conversation.

I thought maybe we could start with just like a brief introduction of who you are, why you're

running for Senate in Michigan.

Yeah, Daniel, first, thank you so much for having me excited about your project, because I think

you're talking about some really important issues.

I'm honored to be here. My name is Abdul Al-Said. I am running for Senate in Michigan. And frankly, as a physician and epidemiologist whose work has been about trying to use government to make life better, easier, and more dignified for people, one of the things that has become overwhelming, I think for most of us, is that it just shouldn't be this hard to get by in the richest, most powerful country in the world.

You shouldn't have to worry about the quality of air you breathe or the water that you drink

or whether or not you can go see a doctor or whether or not you can afford your groceries

or walk in your community without being victimized by a neighbor or the state itself.

All of these things come back to one central issue, which is that

we've allowed corporations and would-be oligarchs to dominate too much of our lives in the

ways that they can use their money and their power to buy politics and by politicians

...