This is Ross Coulthard and you are listening to That UFO Podcast.

Hi everyone and welcome back to that UFO Podcast.

My name is Andy and I am joined on today's show by an

associate professor of teaching philosophy at Ohio State University. Dr

Stephen Brown, Stephen welcome at the podcast.

Thanks, it's a pleasure to be here.

Really good to have you on,

and straight off the bat, I'm going to be really honest

and say I very much enjoyed your presentation.

You done at OSU, I believe it was at your university yet. Yeah yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No. No. No. No. Go for it. Yeah. Yeah. So I was not into anything you of four related at all until the David Grush article in the debrief last summer almost exactly a year ago.

I was actually, I'm currently in Arizona about to give a talk on Buddhism at a high school philosophy camp at Arizona State University.

I was here last year giving a talk on artificial intelligence and right before I gave that talk I saw on

Reddit that this David Grush article came out I read the whole thing and it just completely blew my mind and I kind of followed the fact check articles that the debrief did over the next several days and that's what got me started.

And I fell down the rabbit hole and I've been thinking a lot way too much ever since then about what this means for us. I believe David Grush I think that everything he's saying is essentially true.

I mean, when he, one of the things I like about Grush is he makes it very clear

when he's speculating and when he's speaking from his experience as an intelligence officer.

And, you know, when he's speculating,

he's just like all of us, just speculating.

But when he's speaking from his experience,

I believe that everything he is saying is true,

which is spectacular and shocking.

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