Some of the most popular episodes of Downstream have involved one person, Gary Stevenson,

with one very clear message. That is, we need to tax the rich, we need to tax in particular,

wealth. That message has a certain amount of authority

because of Gary Stevenson, his accomplishments, his CV. He studied maths and economics at the

LSC. He studied economics at Oxford. He went to Citibank, made a ton of money as a trader.

When he talks about this stuff, he has authority, the credentials. He knows what he's talking about.

Here's the thing. Today's guest is the authority for Gary Stevenson. He told us that we have to

talk to this guy while he's in town. Gabriel Zuckman is a professor of economics at the

Parish School of Economics. He's also taught in the US. He's taught at the

London School of Economics. He's a founding director of the International Tax Observatory.

He's written a bunch of books on this topic. Billionaires are the word on everybody's lips.

For some people, they're the source of all innovation and economic growth. For others,

they are causing political, social and economic chaos. They are a problem. Whatever your views,

you're going to want to watch today's show, because Gabriel Zuckman, my guest, is, I think,

the world's leading economist on what a wealth tax could do, how it

would be implemented, and what problems it's seeking to solve. He's written a fabulous new book.

We need to tax a billionaire. It's pretty clear about his agenda. And it's really pithy with regards to not just the policy, but the data. What are

the effective rates of tax that a working person is paying in France compared to a billionaire,

for instance? And some of those numbers really will dazzle you. Gabrielle is such a pleasure

to have you on downstream. Thanks for coming on.

Thanks for having you.

We're talking about your new book. We need to tax billionaires. Very emphatic. You're saying it many times. It's very short for people that are thinking of buying it. I can't recommend it enough regardless, but it's always helpful in it's short, isn't it? You're making that argument. We're going to talk about that argument about taxing billionaires, how you're going to do it,

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