The essence of what makes dog special is their very affectionate, very loving natures and what stems from that at a practical level is that we best go forward with our dogs showing them gentle leadership.

There's absolutely no point and no benefit bringing coercion and pain and all the kind of nonsense that you get in several of the most popular dog trainer shows that's completely counterproductive.

You can get the best outcomes for you and your dog by showing your dog gentle leadership by using what people call positive reinforcement treats and so forth and kind words.

Are we yes? Where are we here? Why are we here not entirely clear? We are misfits gross into existence by random chance with no hints at all as to how we're supposed to make sense of it all. It's immensely bizarre. Here we are.

Hello everybody and welcome to the here we are podcast my guests today. This is so awesome. I'm going to go into a little bit of background first. I want you to check out his book dog is love. Clive win is joining me today. Thank you. Clive for joining me. I want to give the audience a little bit of of an intro into how we met know each other because we we met.

We met we met under some interesting circumstances if you if you remember we met you did my show stand up science in late January I believe of 2020 or maybe just to begin just the beginning of February and and so so for listeners that don't know I was in addition to doing this show.

I had especially in 2019 I had done about a hundred live shows of this show stand up science I was touring with where typically I would have two academics and a second comedian join me for a show that was kind of like half Ted talk half comedy so I do stand up and then academic would join and share some of their research and back and forth and and then we get together on stage at the end and do a whole

Q&A with the audience is a bunch of fun. I had a lot of on touring with it. I've had time to restructure the show a little bit since then and I've been and might be launching it again. But when I met Clive Clive did the second or yeah second to last one before COVID and we we showed up in Glendale Arizona and I had been I hadn't been touring with the show and I hadn't been doing this show for like a moment.

I was doing a different tour and so I was out of out of the science realms a little bit not and I don't watch the news and so right before the show I'm going back and forth with the second guest Clive was one of them and it's this biologist who's like yeah I don't know if I can be indoors with people and all this stuff this COVID thing and I'm like COVID what do you what are you talking you can't be indoors are you what

and canceled on me for my show and then I showed up and I said Clive I guess it's just you today I have some hypochondriac that just canceled on me and and we had a show it was it was just Clive and he was actually I just thought of him recently because he he filled in the space really well and had a and had a he was just a fantastic guest and that was at the time

we were both like yeah me this is this is blowing out of proportion right and then cut to it a few weeks later in the whole world shut down so that's that's how Clive and I met so it's wonderful to see you again Clive on under stranger circumstances and remotely this time

it's great to be back with you how do you how have you been how's your last 15 16 months I forgot how counting works 17 months back yeah well I mean as you say I mean that that that that gig we did in February I think that might have been the last time I left the house for like a year I mean suddenly this whole dramatically different world nothing the moral of the story is if you're

if you're going to me with a biologist and the biologist is anxious about something you probably know something that you don't know or I don't know but I think you know I think I've had a fairly good pandemic as these things go touch wood yeah I I actually

Oh shoot was her name Jennifer anyway I shortly afterwards I reached out to her to apologize for not taking her seriously and and had her on the show

right away and so made for kind of a fun and interesting episode but I'm on a lighter note today we're going to be talking about dogs Clive wrote a book dog is love and can you first off can you give

people a little bit of your background because you didn't start with dog research no sure so I've always been fascinated by the minds of other species I you know I remember when I

was a kid and we were going the moon and you know maybe now we're going to Mars I don't know and there's you know people get excited about life on

other planets but I've I've always felt we don't really understand the life on our own planet all that well especially from a

psychological point of view what kind of minds to other species have and so for years I was a kind of a more

standard issue sort of animal psychologist and we mainly study rats and pigeons because it's like what we always

studied and so we do what we've always done but that came a point where I was getting kind of tired of that and I

realized that I wasn't only interested in the minds of animals I was actually very interested in how people and

...