This is supposed to be a clear order.

It shouldn't be something that both sides would be able to interpret.

And what we're seeing right now is that there is a very powerful interpretation saying that Israel can actually continue its

raffa operation in so far that it does not risk the defense of the protected group that is the Palestinians. For instance, it cannot

evacuate all the Palestinians, destroy all structures, but Israel, at any case is saying

that it's only allowing the population to leave so that they won't be hurt. It is

It is 1040 a.m. on Friday, May 24th in New York City. It is 540 p.m. in Israel as we are all now just processing the latest news. We are taping this special episode as a result really just

after the ICJ, the International Court of Justice,

announced that Israel must seize its military operations in Raffa.

This comes less than a week after the ICC announced that it is

considering arrest warrants against Prime Minister Netanyahu and Defense

Minister Galant and the leaders of Hamas. And days after a handful of European

countries announced that they formally recognize a Palestinian state. I'm

joined this morning by Nada Viale from Idiut, regular guest on Call Me Back. Later on we'll be joined by Matt Waxman from Columbia University Law School who's been on this

podcast before I called them both up and I was grateful they both called me back

to help me unpack each of these developments that are mounting what seems to be like an effort at a

full-on diplomatic avalanche for Israel. Hi Nodov.

Hi Nodov.

Hi, Nodov, let's start with the ICJ announcement. What was in the announcement and what

are the immediate implications for Israel?

So as you remember Dan, South Africa has brought a case against Israel under the Genocide Convention

to the ICJ.

...