Welcome to indoctrination, a weekly conversation series about protecting yourself from systems of control.

I'm your host, Rachel Bernstein.

Hi, everyone. If you get a chance, please call my office line 818-907-0036 again 818-907-0036 and record your voice for the call-in show.

If you have a statement you want to make about something that you learned when you were making a transition out of a painful or controlling

experience and into the light of day or freedom, or what kept you involved in a controlled

situation for so long or the challenges that you've had since leaving.

And it can also be a question that you pose of me about what might help when you're leaving a

community, what might help when you're leaving a relationship, how to get back on your feet,

something where you then can participate in the show, I can respond to your statement or answer your

question. You can inform people, inform listeners of your name or not. You can just leave it

anonymously. Either is fine. And they will be included in the show, which will be in a few weeks.

So again, call 818-907-0036 and leave a

statement about transitioning out, finding freedom, taking your first steps, what the challenges were,

advice you got that was great, advice you got that was awful and to stay away from. And also, if you do have questions for me

and you'd like me to answer them on the show. I look forward to hearing from you.

And now for today. Today, we have part one of my conversation with Todd Brown.

He was in kind of an independent Sufi community in Illinois called Daimi Tariqat for 23 years.

He worked as a baker at their Sufi-owned business during that time.

Since leaving the group in March of this year, he has

come out again as a gay man and returned to school to complete a graduate degree in counseling.

He hopes to earn a PhD and help people leave coercive environments, And that all sounds wonderful to me.

You will hear part one of my conversation with him today and part two next week. Here's Todd Brown.

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