Welcome to this special episode of Java with Julie.

And if you're listening to this, that means that you are an authentic intimacy member.

And I just want to say thank you.

Your membership allows us to connect with you in different ways and to provide extra content like what you're hearing right now.

But it also is an important part of supporting the Ministry of Authentic

intimacy. So enjoy this conversation with Mary DeMuth. Mary, one thing that you've been writing on

recently is this theme of healing from being hurt by people in the church, which is not at all

what we anticipate when we come to Christ and not at all what the Lord

desires for us. If you read all the scripture, you know, Jesus' prayer for us before

he went to the cross was that we would be unified as believers. So when did you first bump

into the fact that there can be friendly fire within the body of Christ?

It's actually interesting because a lot of this came about as just having relationships with

other people who had some pretty extreme experiences in church. And so I wrote a post

about spiritual abuse. And so it's odd. if you Google the word spiritual abuse my post

will come up it's become like some sort of crazy post but um that I I tend to like really be

upset for victims in any form and so when I heard some stories about uh you know just some

church not all churches obviously not all churches.

And the vast majority are great, but there are some churches out there that have this kind of authoritarian structure that abuse their members.

But beyond that, I think regardless of whether there are church structures, you will be hurt within the church.

There's going to be leaders that hurt you.

There's going to be other Christians that hurt you.

I ended up writing a book called The Wall Around Your Heart, which is an avenue,

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