There's what you're trying to do and then what you actually did do.

And if you're even fussily trying to put paint down in an exact way,

it's still communicating that you're a person who's probably out of control.

From the TED Audio Collective, this is Design Matters with Debbie Millman.

On Design Matters, Debbie talks with some of the most creative people in the world about what they do,

how they got to be who they are, what they're thinking about, and working on.

On this episode, a conversation with artist Sy Gavin about his career and about what he stopped

drawing when he makes his paintings.

Why not just eliminate that step entirely and just be yourself? career and about what he stopped drawing when he makes his paintings.

Why not just eliminate that step entirely and just be yourself?

Saigon is a painter whose work resists easy categorization. It moves between figuration and abstraction, between landscape and memory, between what is seen and what is carried. He creates

artwork that unfolds as atmospheres, as questions, and as a kind of inquiry into perception

itself. His services hold both material experimentation, pigments, textures, light, and a deeper

investigation into how we locate ourselves in the world

physically and psychologically. His work has been exhibited at institutions, including the Metropolitan

Museum of Art, and is held in major public collections. But what distinguishes his practice

is not scale or recognition. It's the way his paintings operate as sites of searching.

They ask, not only what are we looking at, but how we look and what we bring with us when we do.

Debbie spoke with Cy Gavin in front of a live audience at the Met, where they were in conversation

both about his life and work, but also about how it relates

to ecologies of painting and installation on view in the European Painting's Galleries.

Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us on this beautiful afternoon in New York City.

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