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Hello and welcome to the Red Box Podcast on The Times, I'm Matt Chorley. This week we're in Birmingham for the Tory Party Conference and I'm joined by Matthew

Paris, the Times columnist Tim Schittman, political editor of the Sunday Times, and

Joe Tanner, former spin doctor for Boris Johnson, and for 15 years worked with Katie Perrier, who's now

director of communications at number 10. Welcome to you all. So let's start with you Matthew. How are you finding

the toy conference? I'm looking for a replacement for the cliche about rearranging the deck

chairs on the Titanic because that's such a dreadful cliche about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic because that's such a dreadful

cliche. I can't use it but there's to me a strange feeling of everybody talking about all kinds of things

but slowly we're slipping through the water and we don't know if there's an iceberg ahead waiting for us and

to me it's given this whole conference a slightly surreal feeling.

And the iceberg being Brexit?

No one can talk about anything but Brexit.

And I've been going through the pages of the fringe guide.

There are 62 occurrences of the word Brexit

...