I think what's most interesting actually is how much some of the core and fundamental

issues that people who work on cyber strategy and policy have been debating for the past

almost 20 years are really still the same set of issues.

And 5-5-6 bullets are, you know, you can buy them

in mass. You can get a whole palette delivered and you got them for the range and you count them

and they're tangible items. And you know exactly the capability of both that weapon system,

that in the delivery system as well as what the impact is going to be on your

adversary. And cyber assets and cyber capabilities and cyber tools, however you want to phrase it,

are not the same.

Hey, welcome back to the Modern War Institute podcast. I'm John Ambo, editorial director at MWI.

And a while back, we launched a joint initiative with the Army Cyber

Institute called the Competition in Cyberspace Project. On this episode, I'm joined by two guests

from the Army Cyber Institute, Maggie Smith and Erica Launergan. Since the project launched, we have

published dozens of articles on cyber-related topics. In fact, the wide range of topics that

fit under the cyber umbrella is one of the themes of this conversation. Maggie and Erica discuss

how cyber differs from the other warfighting domains and the challenges those differences pose,

as well as cyber's unique talent management requirements, what strategic competition might look

like in cyberspace, and

even the role of cyber in the ongoing war in Ukraine.

It is a wide-ranging and fascinating conversation on a really important and dynamic set of subjects.

Before we get to it, as always, just a couple of quick notes.

First, if you're enjoying the MWI podcast, wherever you're listening, please take a second

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