CNLP 803 | Mass-Marketed Sin, Political Warfare, and Why Your Best Staff Keep Leaving with Joel Muddamalle
The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast
Carey Nieuwhof
4.8 • 2.3K Ratings
🗓️ 12 May 2026
⏱️ 109 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Joel Muddamalle is a theologian who thinks harder about spiritual warfare than almost anyone in the church today. In this conversation: how sin got a mass-marketing strategy, why your devices are a primary battleground, why the best answer to political division might be subversion, and how to keep your best people long-term.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The Art of Leadership Network |
| 0:02.7 | The dark forces of this world |
| 0:04.7 | are experts in mass marketing sin. |
| 0:09.6 | The dark forces of this world are experts in mass marketing sin. |
| 0:13.4 | We have to be really careful that we don't correlate |
| 0:16.9 | the incommunicable attributes of God |
| 0:20.2 | with these dark powers. |
| 0:26.7 | Welcome to the Kerry Newhoff Leadership Podcast. I'm so glad you joined us today. Hey, I've got Joel |
| 0:32.1 | Mudamali on the podcast. We talk about what it takes to create an environment as a boss where you have A players on your team. |
| 0:41.4 | How do you keep a guy like a resident theologian who has best-selling books on your team, keep him motivated? |
| 0:48.2 | We're talking about the battle, the spiritual battle happening on your devices, mass marketing sin, and theocracy and the |
| 0:56.4 | subversion of political power in American nationalism, Christian nationalism. So all that with |
| 1:02.8 | resident theologian Joel Matamale today on the podcast. Hey, so glad you joined us. |
| 1:07.6 | Want to welcome all of you. For those of you who are watching or listening for the first time, I'm really glad that you're here. Thanks so much for joining us. We've got a temporary studio today. In fact, you might hear a little bit of texting back and forth. Very few people break through on my phone, but we got a family chat going on. So there's a few louder things along the way. Well, it's just because we're doing this show no matter where we are. |
| 1:30.0 | Joel Matamali is the director of theology and research at Proverbs 31 Ministry with Lisa Turkirst and the theologian in residence for Haven Place Ministries. |
| 1:40.2 | He also co-hosts the popular podcast Therapy and Theology with Lisa and licensed counselor Jim Press. |
| 1:46.5 | He serves on the preaching team at Transformation Church with Pastor Derwin Gray and is the author of Hidden Peace and his latest book, The Unseen Battle. |
| 1:55.5 | So if you're watching for the first time, make sure you give us a follow or subscribe. |
| 2:00.4 | If you're listening, do the same thing on whatever platform you're listening on. That way you'll never miss an episode. And now to my conversation with Joel Matamale. Joel, I'm so glad to have you. Welcome. Thanks, Carrie. I'm so excited for this conversation. You're in a very unique position. We're going to talk a lot of theology, but we were chatting a little bit, and I've met you before. We've done it in person with Lisa Turker. So you get to write books. You get to sort of chart your own course, but you also work for a very well-known leader. And I'm curious about what that dynamic looks like, because we have a lot of bosses, |
| 2:35.3 | a lot of team members listening. And sometimes that dynamic isn't great. And you guys have sort of a |
| 2:40.5 | really cool relationship I want to dig into a little bit. First of all, how do you become |
| 2:45.2 | resident theologian for Lisa Turkrist? How does that happen? Yeah, well, I think this is such a |
... |
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