The Art of Leadership Network.

In Hebel's words, I mean, he's just a young kid.

We don't have any money.

And he went out and they visited Schuller, and Schuller let him come up to the office.

And they had a conversation where, I'm going to paraphrase here, but Schuller basically said to him, give God a thimble and he might fill it.

Give God a five-gallon bucket, and he might fill

that. Give God a 55-gallon drum, and you might see some really cool things happen. And it was

Schiller who challenged Heibles, think big. You got to think really big.

And in both a good way and a bad way now, Carrie.

Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff Leadership Podcast, man.

I'm so excited about this episode.

Okay, it's a little bit nerdy.

And I think that's okay. when I talk to Todd Wilson about this project he's been working on for years, I'm like, where was this

when I needed? It's the history of the church growth movement over the last 70 years, you know,

from its origins to secret sensitive, attractional,

missional, emerging church. I mean, the whole thing over the last 70 years. And why this is

so important to me is this is basically the church you ended up leading. I picked up with this

in the 90s midstream. You probably picked up on it, you know, a lot later than I did.

You got into church leadership in the 2010s or even in the 2020s.

And you don't fully understand the model that you're operating in.

Well, we go two hours on this.

So I take my church history nerd hat and consider this the seminary class you never got.

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