It's strange. I'm a far more competent climber than I am in kind of day-to-day life.

In day-to-day life, there's far more things that are a challenge for me than when I go to the crag.

I can't drive. I'll never be able to drive. Not being able to read anything anymore,

not being able to read the guidebooks and get psyched for routes but pick them out on my own.

That's like kind of, there's all these things in life that, you know, just are totally impossible.

And weirdly, climbing is this pretty extreme thing that actually I'm still able to do.

Alex, I know that you've had a lot of climbing partners through the years, but I'm curious

if there was a partner at a moment when you were putting it all together, when

you were stepping up to bigger challenges that helped you grow, that could keep you calm

or motivated or keep you fighting when you're out on lead, or just maybe even like knew what

you needed to hear.

I have definitely had a few key partners over the years.

I mean, the one that immediately springs to mind is my old friend, Josh McCoy, who I learned how to trad climb with. You know, he just came into my climbing life at exactly the right time when I was excited to do bigger adventures. He was excited to do bigger adventures. He had owned a car. He owned a rack. He owned a rope. And he was always game for anything. How old were you? Like when that happened? I think I was 19. I don't know. Okay. And you did not own a car?

No. rope and he was always game for anything but how old were you like when that happened i think i was 19 okay and you did not own a car were you not not at the time no i had a bicycle i bike places to

meet partners and then they would drive me to the crag but but actually it's funny that you say

what we needed to hear because i have some formative memories of of josh actually being on lead

singing if you're happy and you know it clapped your hands like basically being on an aide lead in you 70 all super scared and he'd be singing and I would be clapping my hands at the anchor you know if you're happy and you know clap your hands and then I'd clap clap from the anchor I remember this is him being out of sight on this route in Washington's column but it's like that, you know, we're both super scared, we're eight climbing for the first time. We're using all

this, like, jank gear that he, like, I mean, he, I think he still has. This is old jank rack. Yeah, it's just like a classic way to learn together. Did you get to know him well enough to you that you like knew when he was scared or you knew when, I mean, obviously if he's singing, clap

your hands, you maybe were like, cute into that. But like, did you get to know him well enough to you that you like knew when he was scared or you knew when I mean obviously if you're singing clap your hands you maybe were like cute into that but but like did you get to know him well enough that you that you like knew what you needed to help do to help him yeah we both I mean he's still one of my one of my best friends and yeah we both definitely knew each other well enough to tell when somebody's tense or somebody's actually afraid or if it's getting serious.

I think part of what made the partnership so great was that neither of us take it too seriously, so we're always having a good time, even when you're kind of scared. Do you guys still climb together? Yeah, he's one of my go-to partners when he's around just because he still has the same attitude, always having a good time, always having fun. and so, you know, even though the scale of challenges

has sort of risen over the years, he's still always game to just like go and go and do something.

You know, I think part of that process in the beginning is learning how to subtract, right?

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