Classic: From Chaos to Code: Do we need a new theory of Life? Paul Davis vs Jeremy England

Unbelievable?

Premier Unbelievable?

Christianity, Religion & Spirituality

4.7 • 2.4K Ratings

🗓️ 31 March 2026

⏱️ 88 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Physicists Paul Davies and Jeremy England tackle one of science’s hardest puzzles: how did lifeless matter spark into life? In this classic Big Conversation from Unbelievable podcast the question is whether we need a new theory for the origin of life in the universe. Davies argues that “software” (information) is as crucial as chemistry, hinting at undiscovered laws that bind hardware to code. England explains how open systems and thermodynamics can drive matter to organise, adapt and harvest energy—perhaps seeding pre-Darwinian evolution. They trade insights on RNA world hypotheses, entropy, agency, and why the universe is so uncannily intelligible. Does a “life-favouring” cosmos imply purpose—or is natural process enough? Expect rigorous science, clear analogies and thoughtful theology. Support & Subscribe 👉 Support thought-provoking conversations and help keep the show going at www.premierunbelievable.com/geolink/donate💡 ❓Got a question for Tom? Go to askntwright.com 👉 Refer a friend to become a subscriber → They can get 10% off by clicking here Follow us Instagram: https://instagram.com/premierunbelievable Facebook: https://facebook.com/premierunbelievable Tik Tok: https://tiktok.com/@premier.unbelievable X: https://x.com/UnbelievableFE

Transcript

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0:00.0	At Easter, life begins again, but for women in places affected by conflict and disaster, giving birth can be deadly.
0:08.0	A gift of £5 through Medair helps provide a clean delivery kit to keep a mother and baby safe during labour.
0:15.1	And if you're giving on someone's behalf, Medair will send you a certificate to personalise and pass on. A reminder that a gift made in
0:22.8	their honour is helping protect life. Give a gift this Easter at Medair.org slash premiere.
0:30.2	Well, hello and welcome to Unbelievable. It's the show that brings you conversations that matter
0:35.1	every week. And today, episode five of The Big Conversation
0:39.2	from Unbelievable and brought you in partnership with the John Templeton Foundation. The big
0:44.2	conversation is all about exploring the biggest questions of science, faith and philosophy with
0:49.5	leading thinkers across the religious and non-religious spectrum. And today, we're exploring the origins of life and asking, do we need a new theory for how life began?
1:04.0	This season is being recorded remotely for obvious reasons, but the silver lining is that it allows us to bring fascinating voices together from all over the world.
1:15.0	And joining me today are Paul Davis and Jeremy England.
1:18.8	Paul Davies is Professor of Physics at Arizona State University, as well as being the director of Beyond, the Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science.
1:26.7	He spent a lifetime probing the big
1:28.9	questions of origins, and his most recent book, The Demon in the Machine, explores the way
1:34.3	that hidden webs of information may be solving the mystery of life. Jeremy England is a physicist
1:40.5	who's currently senior director in artificial intelligence at Glaxo Smith-Kline
1:44.9	and principal research scientist at Georgia Tech. And Jeremy is at the forefront of researching
1:49.9	how the science of thermodynamics may provide an answer to life's origins. Fascinatingly,
1:56.0	he's also an ordained rabbi and brings both the Torah and his science together in his recent book,
2:01.6	Every Life is on Fire. Well, the first microbial forms of life arose on earth perhaps 3.5 billion
2:09.0	years ago, but how? And why would inanimate matter go to the trouble of becoming a living,
2:16.2	self-replicating organism with the potential to ultimately
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