Hello and welcome to ways to change the world. I'm Krishnamgaru Murphy and this is

the podcast in which we talk to extraordinary people about the big ideas and

their lives and the events that have helped shape them. My guest this week is

Doctor and Broadcaster and now the author of I think one of the books of the

year is called Ultra Processed People. Why do we all eat stuff that isn't food

and why can't we stop? Chris, welcome. It's such a pleasure to be here.

Great to have you here. This has come at the right time in my life because I'm

going through a sort of radical dietary change. So I'm absolutely fascinated by

the ideas in your book and what you're saying. We better just lay out our terms,

what we're talking about, first of all. So what is Ultra Processed Food?

So Ultra Processed Food is not an informal term like junk food. It's a formal

category of foods. The definition was developed about 10 years ago and there's a

very long scientific definition, long because it has to encompass so many

different processes. But it boils down to this if it's wrapped in plastic and it

contains at least one ingredient that you don't typically find in a domestic

kitchen, then it's Ultra Processed Food. So things like Xantham gum, emulsifiers,

flavorings, sweeteners, artificial or natural sweeteners, those are all

examples of ultra processed food additives. So this is often things like ready meals

that look like stuff that you might cook, but have actually got something extra in.

The way I'd think about it is for every real food, there is an ultra processed

alternative that is a better way of extracting money from us. So much of it is obvious junk.

The high street is full of factory made, fried chicken and burgers and frozen

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