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Hello and welcome to Chinese Whispers with me, Cindy Yu. Every episode, I'll be talking to journalists, experts, and long-time China

watches about the latest in Chinese politics, society, and more. There'll be a smattering

of history to catch you up on the background knowledge and some context as well. How do the Chinese

see these issues? This episode of Chinese whispers is slightly different to your usual, because it's not so much

about China as it is about China seen through the lens of another important country, India.

The fifth largest economy in the world, now with a population larger than China's, is increasingly

being seen as an important partner for the West's ability to counter China.

It's true that the relationship

between New Delhi and Beijing is increasingly fraught, with India having an interest in countering

Chinese influence too. And yet, India has its own historical baggage with China and its own

interest to protect. These don't always align with Washington's or London's. To join me to impact some of the complexities here is Avanesh Paliwal,

an international relations expert at Soas.

His upcoming book is India's Near East, A New History.

Avanish, welcome to Chinese Whispers.

To start with, how would you describe India and Chinese relationship in a nutshell?

It's a rivalry.

It is one of those very deeply fraught relationships in Asia,

wherein two powers, two rising powers, believe or have a very strong sense of self

in terms of what their place in the world should be,

what is their rightful place within Asia, and what are the logical limits of their influence,

both material, cultural and economic, whether it's in Central Asia, whether it's in Southeast Asia, whether it's in the

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