I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, and the pain of my circumstances exceeded the fear that I had always harbored around doing something different.

At that moment, I had the willingness to take action.

What I learned was a whole set of tools that have changed the trajectory of my life.

You learn to gain clarity over your behavior, to take

accountability for your actions by cleaning up the wreckage of your past, by making amends. And

most importantly, you give it back, and that's the way you get to keep it. And that was my

introduction to service as a way of life that I think underscores everything that I do professionally today.

All right, Rich, welcome back.

Great to be here.

We were just talking about Charlie Rose, who we've admired in different ways and also been

critical of.

But an interesting thing about interviewing is

like the moments leading up to an interview. Now, you and I just obviously did a podcast. So it was like,

we've had like a two and a half hour build for this one. When I did the Charlie Rose interview,

this was like 2016 or 17, obviously before he had been canceled. And you go into this like little closet. And I, of

course, was very nervous because I grew up watching a ton of Charlie Rose. And my parents were like

obsessed with Charlie Rose. So it was like a big deal that I was going on this thing. And I remember

vividly sitting down and him walking in and not even acknowledging my existence. And I was like,

hi, Charlie, great to meet you, you know. And he was like, save it. And it was this whole like mantra

of I don't want to hear anything until we're on. Yeah. You know, what's your? I have a thing about that too.

I have this fantasy of being able to do that, but it always comes into conflict with the person

actually arriving.

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