Building minimum lovable products, stories from WeWork and Airbnb, and thriving as a PM | Jiaona Zhang (Webflow, WeWork, Airbnb, Dropbox)
Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career
Lenny Rachitsky
5.0 • 1.5K Ratings
🗓️ 2 July 2023
⏱️ 68 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
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Jiaona Zhang (JZ) is a product leader with a strong background in consumer products and extensive hiring and management experience. She is currently SVP of Product at Webflow as well as a lecturer at Stanford, where she teaches a graduate-level course on product management. Before Webflow, JZ was Head of Product for the Homes Platform at Airbnb and has also led product teams at Airbnb, WeWork, and Dropbox. In today’s episode, we discuss:
• Building a “minimum lovable product” rather than a minimum viable product
• How to create better roadmaps through storytelling
• Top lessons from Dropbox, Airbnb, WeWork, and Webflow
• The importance of setting ambitious OKRs
• JZ’s first 90 days playbook: how to succeed in a new role
• Advice for early-career PMs
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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/building-minimum-lovable-products-stories-from-wework-and-airbnb-and-thriving-as-a-pm-jiaona-zhang-webflow-wework-airbnb-dropbox/#transcript
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Where to find Jiaona Zhang:
• Reforge: https://www.reforge.com/managing-your-pm-career
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jiaona/
• Website: https://www.jiaonazhang.com/
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Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
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In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) JZ’s background
(04:22) Common mistakes new PMs make
(06:44) Why Airbnb Plus didn’t work out, and takeaways from that experience
(10:51) Executing big dreams step-by-step
(13:45) The right way to push back against founders
(16:54) Minimum lovable product vs. minimum viable product
(20:53) What makes a product lovable
(22:20) Advice on roadmapping and prioritization
(28:04) Tips for new PMs to accelerate their career
(29:16) JZ’s top skills and how they have evolved over her career
(31:37) Designing crisp OKRs
(36:09) Lessons from WeWork
(43:01) Winning the first 90 days at a new company
(48:34) Why trust is crucial
(51:48) High-level lessons from Dropbox, Airbnb, WeWork, and Webflow
(56:38) The one piece of advice that transformed JZ’s career
(58:39) Lightning round
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Referenced:
• Mike Lewis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelewis/
• “What working at Figma taught me about customer obsession,” VP of Product Sho Kuwamoto: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/what-working-at-figma-taught-me-about
• WeWork: https://www.wework.com/
• WeCrashed on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/wecrashed/umc.cmc.6qw605uv2rwbzutk2p2fsgvq9
• Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days: https://www.amazon.com/Sprint-Solve-Problems-Test-Ideas/dp/150112174X
• The Making of a Manager: What to Do When Everyone Looks to You: https://www.amazon.com/Making-Manager-What-Everyone-Looks/dp/0735219567
• Tress of the Emerald Sea: A Cosmere Novel: https://www.amazon.com/Tress-Emerald-Sea-Brandon-Sanderson/dp/1250899656/
• Arcane on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81435684
• Snoo: https://www.happiestbaby.com/
• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/
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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | I think it's really important to become really good at and also known for something. |
| 0:05.0 | You could be known for shepherding like the most complex launches because you're just so good at |
| 0:11.0 | quarterbacking working with go to market teams and |
| 0:13.7 | cross-functional stakeholders that could be like your thing. You could be known for |
| 0:17.6 | working on the most technically complex problems. Find something that you can be |
| 0:22.0 | really good at. |
| 0:23.4 | And the reason I give that advice is because when you do that, |
| 0:26.8 | you can crush the projects that you get, |
| 0:29.4 | because you're making a name for yourself a reputation. |
| 0:31.8 | And then you are giving more responsibility. |
| 0:34.2 | People tend to flock and give responsibility |
| 0:36.9 | to the people that are known for being excellent at something. |
| 0:43.0 | Welcome to Lenny's podcast where I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts to learn from their hard-wound experiences building and growing today's most successful products. |
| 0:52.0 | Today my guest is Jay-Z. Jay-Z is Senior Vice President of |
| 0:56.0 | Product at WebFlow. She's also a lecture at Stanford teaching a course on product management. |
| 1:00.7 | Before this she was Senior Director of Product Management at We Work, a long time product leader at AirB&B where I got to work with |
| 1:06.6 | Jay-Z for a number of years, and she was also PM at Dropbox and at a gaming company |
| 1:10.8 | called Pocket Gems. |
| 1:12.2 | In her conversation, we dig into the most common mistakes |
| 1:14.9 | early product managers make in their career, |
| 1:17.0 | plus Jay-Z's biggest product mistake. |
| 1:19.4 | We cover the concept of minimal-loveable products |
... |
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