Welcome to gender reveal, a podcast where we hopefully get a little bit closer to understanding what the hell gender is.

I'm your host and resident gender detective, Tucker Stock.

Hey, everyone.

Hope you've all been hanging in there.

You are no doubt familiar by now with

gender conceal, but just in case, gender conceal is our bonus podcast that we make exclusively

for the folks who make it possible for us to make podcasts. That is our generous patrons at

patreon.com slash gender. So this week on gender conceal, I had the pleasure of catching up with

Den Michelle Norris, who you might know from the Food for Thought podcast, or from being the

editor-in-chief of Electric Literature, or from appearing on episode 102 of this very podcast.

Today, as you might have guessed, you will hear a short teaser from my conversation with Denmichelle.

In this teaser today, you will hear Demichelle talk about realizing she doesn't want to be a public figure after all,

why Viola is the most transgender instrument, and whether this year's boom of trans literature is just a blip in the publishing space and what

trans publishing might look like going forward. We also talk about an essay collection that

Denmichel edited that was recently published and is available in bookstores now. This book is called

Both and, and it's a collection of essays by trans authors of color, including many

gender reveal alumni like Raquel Willis, Edgar Gomez, Carter de Roberti, Meredith's, Meredith

Tolucin, and Kai Chang-Tong.

If you enjoy this episode and you'd like to hear much more, you can join us at patreon.com

slash gender and have access to the full episode plus like 40 other

gender conceal episodes. In the full Denmichelle episode, you will hear lots of discussion of

craft in writing, particularly around Denmichelle's other book that was released this year,

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