Hi, I'm senior producer Elizabeth Nakano.

Today we've got something a little different for you, a bonus episode.

I love this little story, but it didn't find a home in an actual episode.

And so we wanted to share it anyway because it's just so classic.

It's just an amazing story.

So when we talk to the pioneer of modern bouldering John Gill, he shared the story of his

eye-opening trip to Colorado as a teenager.

In the spring of 1954, later that summer, another friend and I got in his old car and drove

out to Colorado. And he had been climbing out in Colorado a little bit too.

Went to Boulder and went to Holleybar, the Holleybar shop in some basement somewhere.

I can't remember what their story was.

He may have been an engineer or something, but he and his wife opened a climbing shop in Boulder in the early 1950s. And that's where you went to get your ropes and so on.

And he sold mostly Army surplus stuff from the Second World War for the Mountain Division.

So that was my introduction to, you know, looking at various types of equipment.

I think it's important to remember that when a climber from the 50s or 60s talks about

their rope, it's not the same rope that we're using now. And it's basically not guaranteed to catch a

fall, which is sort of an important thing to keep in mind that, that, you know, back in the day,

climbing ropes didn't actually catch you if you fell necessarily. You know, they frequently broke.

And so, you know,

that's a pretty significant change from, from modern climbing. You know, nowadays, gear is all certified in certain ways and has to meet international specifications. So anything you buy for climbing nowadays,

you know, is, is rated. You know, like, it will work. It will catch you. You can trust your life to it. And that

just wasn't the case in the 50s and 60s. We picked up some equipment there. And then we went out

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