Hello and welcome to Outrage and Optimism. I'm Tom Rivikarnak. I'm Christiana Fierrez.

And I'm Paul Dikinson. Today we catch up with Anna Tony, CEO of COP 30 and ask, what does the year

ahead hold for the Brazilian COP presidency? Thanks for being here. So today we're going to revisit

the COP that happened in Belen at the end of last year where we

conducted so much reporting. We were there every day, as listeners will know. I suppose some people

may be slightly confused about why I'm talking still about the Brazilian cop presidency, but that,

of course, as we have mentioned on the podcast, the presidency of a cop begins when your cop

begins and it lasts for the full year afterwards.

Formally.

Yeah, formally.

So maybe you explain why you say formally.

Yeah, I say formally because in practice, what actually happens is that the incoming presidency, the government that is going to host the cop at the end of the year starts all of its political work

at the beginning of the year in which they will host the cop.

So we are used to, in this case, for example, Brazil taking over all of its political responsibilities

at the beginning of 2025 and then doing all of its prep work throughout

2025 and then formally taking over as cop president at the beginning of the cop in Brazil.

However, that formal takeover of the cop of the responsibility of the presidency doesn't

end until the next cop starts, in this case, the end of this year, 2026. So there's some

sharing of responsibility. I mean, even though it's formerly the Brazilians who are still in charge,

of course, we now know that the Turkish and the Australians are incoming and they will

have the political wind at their backs and people will want to be talking to them much more.

Yes, and I fear that because there is such an awkward and cumbersome agreement between Australia

...