What does Trump’s UNFCCC exit mean for climate diplomacy?
Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast
Persephonica
4.7 • 1.1K Ratings
🗓️ 15 January 2026
⏱️ 38 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
What happens when the world’s most powerful country walks away from the system it helped to build?
This week, we examine the United States’ decision to withdraw not only from the Paris Agreement, but from the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change itself - alongside dozens of other international bodies. Headlines declared the end of multilateral climate cooperation. But is that really what this moment represents?
Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson unpack what has actually been announced - and what it does (and doesn’t) change in practice.
They are joined by Sue Biniaz, former US Deputy Special Envoy for Climate Change and one of the quiet architects of decades of climate diplomacy. Sue brings rare insight into whether a US president can legally withdraw from a Senate-ratified treaty, the surprising pathways by which a future administration could rejoin, and what influence the US may still wield as a non-party.
Could the absence of the US voice, paradoxically, unlock progress elsewhere? And in a fractured world, where does collective climate leadership now come from?
Learn more:
🎥 Watch our hosts’ immediate response to the US UNFCCC withdrawal announcement, recorded the day after news broke
📰 Read the New York Times profile of Sue Biniaz by Lisa Friedman: Meet the Closer Who Finds the Right Words When Climate Talks Hit a Wall
📄 Dive into the Just Security article penned by Sue Biniaz and Jean Galbraith on treaty withdrawal and re-entry
🎤 Leave us your voice notes and questions for upcoming episodes on SpeakPipe
Join the conversation:
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Or get in touch with us via this form.
Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks
Planning: Caitlin Hanrahan
Assistant Producer: Caillin McDaid
Exec Producer: Ellie Clifford
This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello and welcome to outrage and optimism. I'm Tom Rificarnik. I'm Christiana Figueres. |
| 0:06.5 | And I'm Paul Dickinson. This week we discussed the United States withdrawal from the UNF, |
| 0:11.0 | triple C and many other UN bodies. And we speak to legendary United States Deputy Special Envoy |
| 0:16.9 | for Climate Change, Sue Binions. Thanks for being here. So last week, we put out a special edition when the United States announced this withdrawal |
| 0:25.6 | from all of these different UN bodies, and we put it out on YouTube. |
| 0:28.6 | So hopefully some of you will have seen that, but we're going to cover that off in a bit more detail today. |
| 0:33.6 | The US last week announced it as withdrawing from the United Nations Framework Convention on |
| 0:37.8 | Climate Change, the UN Climate Change body under which the Paris Agreement was negotiated and of which |
| 0:42.9 | Christiani used to be the executive secretary and many other climate-related international bodies. |
| 0:48.6 | The headlines came out and said this was the end of multilateral climate cooperation. |
| 0:52.4 | We're going to explore whether that's really true. Let's just kick off with a quick reaction from the two of you. I know we saw it on YouTube. And your initial reaction, Kristiana, was, what the hell? Is that still how you feel? Or a week later, do you feel a bit more reflective about it? You know, I just say what the hell, because it makes no sense to me. but I also say, what the hell let's not drown |
| 1:12.9 | in a glass of water. This is not the end of multilateralism. This is not the end of action on |
| 1:20.3 | climate change. So let's just put it back in its box where it belongs and continue to stay |
| 1:27.4 | focused. |
| 1:28.3 | Very good. Paul? |
| 1:29.6 | Yeah, I mean, I'm struck by a comment of John Podesta said, you know, of all the wreckage |
| 1:34.7 | Donald Trump is leaving in his wake, this one could be amongst the most consequential |
| 1:37.6 | and damaging, particularly for future generations. |
| 1:40.1 | You know, it is a huge thing, climate change, sort of biggest national and global security issue for the world. |
| 1:46.3 | And the US is something like this, and it's totally bizarre. |
| 1:49.3 | But I'm fascinated by how major organizations are going to respond to this. |
| 1:53.9 | You know, you have many, hundreds of vast global corporations headquartered in the US. |
... |
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