This is CBSI on the world. I'm John Batchel, speaking with my colleague, Judy Dempsey, of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Germany.

And the phenomena of the populist right, whether it's an editorial device in order to gather several elections together, or whether it's real. For me, it's most

important to look again and again and again at the rise of AFD, the alternative for

Deutschland. Not only because it came out of nowhere, and Judy's helped me be educated about

East Germany and the ambitions of politicians in Germany

in the Bundestag, but also because right now it is a dominant player in the Bundestag, despite

the fact that it's not a member of the coalition. It looks very carefully as if its confidence

is building because it's making statesman-like remarks that were never part of

its program as it was surging in the vote in the East Germany. Now, there is national rally in France,

but that's an older version of the right wing, and Marine Le Pen, who is forbidden for running for

presidency for now, has a candidate, a young candidate who

will stand. That's a recognizable French move to the right, away from Emmanuel Macron's

centrist government these many years. But AFD is a phenomenon to me, and I want to learn how

Friedrich Meritz is handling it, the new Chancellor of Germany.

Judy, my understanding is that the Bundestag is always a miracle and anything gets done

because of the scale of it and because you need so many votes to carry the majority and there

are a lot of deals.

But the last time we spoke of AFD, it was acting statesman-like. Is that a good

memory that suddenly it's presenting itself as all buffed up, you know, sartorial and ready

for government in the next general election? Is that still continuing?

It depends on where the AFD is situated.

The leadership is hungry for power, but power brings responsibility,

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