I'm Claire Fallon and I'm Emma Gray and this is Love to See It, an obsessively detailed

recap podcast about the bachelor and other pop culture that makes us laugh, cry and curse

the patriarchy. We can't live with these shows and we can't live without them, but we

can break down every juicy moment and unpack all the weird messages these shows send us

about love, sex and dating.

Welcome to Love to See It, a podcast about what happens when a man falls in love with

a woman and another woman and another woman. This week, coming off of an absolutely brutal

women tell all, it's Clayton's fantasy suites and he just can't stop, won't stop telling

women he's in love with them. Joining us to take this journey straight to hell is Amy

Kaufman, senior entertainment writer at the LA Times and author of Bachelor Nation. Amy,

thanks for joining us. Thank you ladies. It's been so long since I've seen you. I know.

I know. I did face to face. It's been since my book came out in New York, I think, which

was 2018. That's a very sad thing. I think of 2018 as being last year, but it's actually

four years ago. We're in very different emotional states then.

That is extremely true. Amy, I think at that point, you and I were both single and

Claire didn't have a child. Things have changed. The Bachelor, as like, yeah, I know, I

was thinking about what season we were watching when we met people. I listened to the podcast

with your partners and I liked hearing, you know, how you sort of indoctrinate them

into the batch. It's a template for all Bachelor viewers to follow. Yeah, I was thinking

earlier actually about how long it had been since a Bachelor season that didn't end in

just a complete catastrophe. I think it's been since next season, which is actually 2017.

Four years ago, we were already in this era of each Bachelor season ending with some

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