Avril Haines, Eric Rosenbach, and David Sanger on U.S. Offensive Cyber Operations

The Lawfare Podcast

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4.7 • 6.4K Ratings

🗓️ 29 May 2019

⏱️ 54 minutes

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Summary

From the Washington Post’s February report that U.S. Cyber Command took a Russian disinformation operation offline on the day of the 2018 midterms to fight election interference, to the Pentagon’s announcement last year that it would take more active measures to challenge adversaries in cyberspace, recent news about cyber operations suggests they are playing an increasingly important role in geopolitics. So how should the public understand how the United States deploys its cyber tools to achieve its goals? To help answer that question, last month at the 2019 Verify Conference, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation hosted a panel discussion featuring former CIA Deputy Director Avril Haines, former Pentagon chief of staff Eric Rosenbach, and New York Times national security correspondent David Sanger. They talked about how the U.S. projects power in cyberspace, the difficulties of developing norms to govern state behavior in that domain, and more.

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair
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0:14.7	That's patreon.com slash LawFair.
0:18.2	Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair
0:25.6	no bull and the aftermath.
0:32.6	Offensive cyber is not this like magic cyber nuke that you say, okay, like send in the aircraft
0:39.2	and we drop the cyber nuke over Russia tomorrow.
0:42.8	It's very painstaking work.
0:44.4	You have the platform, which is in some other country in the world.
0:47.0	You gain access.
0:48.5	You hold persistent access.
0:50.2	You try not to be discovered.
0:51.9	You have something in there sending information back in some ways, right?
0:55.0	This is all hypothetically speaking.
0:57.6	When you then want to have a payload, you have to have all those other things that could
1:02.7	take years.
1:04.5	I'm Matthew Khan and you're listening to the LawFair podcast May 28, 2019.
1:10.8	From the Washington Post's February report that US Cyber Command took a Russian disinformation
1:15.6	operation offline on the day of the 2018 midterms, to the Pentagon's announcement last year
1:21.4	that it would take more active measures to challenge adversaries in cyberspace.
1:26.9	Recent news about US cyber operations and strategic planning suggests that they are playing
1:32.6	an increasingly important role in how the US approaches geopolitics.
	...

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