A note to our listeners. This episode contains discussion of suicidal ideation.

I've been making podcasts about mental health since 2016, nine years. I've written a book about

mental health. I've given speeches about it all over the country. I've talked with countless

people dealing with mental health conditions. I've talked with researchers, politicians,

artists, everyday folks. I've written a weekly newsletter about mental health for many years.

I've put a lot of work into this. And I have something to tell you, nobody has it all solved.

Nobody has it licked. Nobody is 100% fine and will be fine forevermore. Don't work like that.

Some people are doing great at the moment, which is wonderful. It doesn't guarantee they always have

been or always will be. I believe, and we've talked about this on the show before, I am of the belief that there's

no such thing as some people who experience mental illness and some people who don't. I think

everyone either is experiencing something or has or will. So who gets mental illness? Everybody.

And if you are going through something right now, you know that mental health is a present tense proposition. It's something you're managing, doing your best, trying to keep track of what works and what doesn't. There are ups and there are downs. Good days, bad days, it's messy. Also, and we've talked about this

before, professional success and achievement don't solve mental health problems. Even if you're a

social media star with millions of followers and you've written a best-selling book,

you're still dealing with this stuff. The fight doesn't stop. I know this,

but I was reminded of it again in this week's interview, which featured a surprise and a reminder

right up towards the top. It's depression mode. I'm John Moe. I'm glad you're here.

Tiffany Jenkins is the author of two memoirs.

In 2019, High Achiever, the incredible true story of one addict's double life. It was about her substance use issues that eventually led to

felony convictions and her incarceration. And she's the author of the newly published A Clean

Mess, a Memoir of Sobriety after a lifetime of Being Numb, a New York Times bestseller.

And that tells the story of what happened after Tiffany was released,

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