Al and Norm Ornstein on The Blueprint for Trump's Cruelty
The Al Franken Podcast
The Al Franken Podcast
4.6 • 8.1K Ratings
🗓️ 7 June 2026
⏱️ 60 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
What's actually driving the Trump administration? Our good friend and emeritus scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, Norm Ornstein, joins Al to follow the blueprint laid out by Project 2025.
The chief architect of Project 2025, Russell Vought, now runs the Office of Management and Budget, the perfect position to carry out The Project’s agenda. Norm and Al cover the human cost of gutting USAID, DOGE’s chaotic assault on the federal workforce, an immigration crackdown that's begun alienating the Hispanic voters who swung to Trump in 2024, and a cabinet culture so consumed with flattery that Ornstein calls it the "Lickspittle Olympics."
Plus, Trump promised to keep us out of wars, but with the ongoing conflict with Iran, the Venezuela invasion, preparations around Cuba, and a growing rift with NATO, it seems like he might not have been fully honest with the American people.
Norm discusses how this administration's corruption dwarfs every previous White House scandal combined. And what should Democrats actually do if they retake Congress? Is impeachment smart politics or a distraction? And what does a credible "Project 2029" look like?
LISTEN to Norm's podcast "Words Matter" with fellow friend of the show David Rothkopf: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dsrs-words-matter/id1420216970
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hey, everybody. We got a great one today, you know, for a change. Well, I'm not sure how great |
| 0:10.1 | it's going to be. I'm a bit rusty. I've taken a bit of a break. I want to thank Norm |
| 0:15.8 | Ornstein, Heather McGee, Trey Crowder, and Catherine Rampel for filling in for me, |
| 0:22.0 | and Peter, of course, for doing a great job producing and engineering the shows. |
| 0:26.9 | And thank you to my audience for sticking with us. |
| 0:33.2 | Things have been pretty fucked up in the meantime. |
| 0:37.0 | There's the Iran War thing. |
| 0:39.7 | When it started with Trump announcing it on truth social in a USA baseball cap, you know, as presidents do. |
| 0:51.6 | It sounded like a bad idea to me, but he said it would be easy, starting with regime |
| 0:59.3 | change. Well, no, that didn't happen. We still have an Ayatollah Khomeini, but evidently a worse one, |
| 1:13.2 | who we're not sure actually exists, |
| 1:15.9 | or we just wounded him very badly, |
| 1:20.1 | and he's very pissed off and just won't talk to us. |
| 1:25.9 | Then the Strait of Hormuz, gee, did Tulsi Gabbard or CIA director John Ratcliffe, |
| 1:28.5 | they just didn't see that coming, |
| 1:31.6 | giving us $450 a gallon gas and $6 diesel |
| 1:35.2 | and creating a global economic crisis. |
| 1:38.6 | Thanks, Trump. |
| 1:40.6 | The Iranian nuclear program, which we had obliterated last June, or did we, the highly enriched uranium stockpile, which according to our intelligence, had been safeguarded, still evidently exists. |
| 1:58.5 | And, of course, they very likely wouldn't have had that highly enriched |
| 2:03.6 | uranium if Trump hadn't backed out of the JCPOA and when and if this war does actually end, we will |
| 2:12.3 | no doubt negotiate something very much along the lines of the JCPOA. you know, JCPOA light, which I suspect will |
... |
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