These are not the kind of things that happen in an army that is confident that it's on a path to victory.

Progossian is not a sympathetic figure, nor are any of his soldiers sympathetic figures, his mercenaries.

He's a businessman and he's a showman and he's quite good at

making it look as if he's the only one that's accomplished anything.

The Ukrainians are not going to sit around and wait on us. I think there are special forces

and partisans are working overtime back in the rear. I would hate to be a Russian truck driver or a dude pulling security on the bridge.

I mean, it's going to be pretty grim for them.

Hey, welcome back to the Modern War Institute podcast.

I'm John Ambo, editorial director at MWI,

and I'm joined on this episode by retired Lieutenant General Ben Hodges.

He is a former

commanding general of U.S. Army Europe, and he has been a keen observer of the ongoing war in Ukraine.

Given his background and his understanding of the European security landscape, he has

exceptional insights on that conflict, from its strategic framework and implications to the way it's

playing out at a tactical level. Like many of us, he was watching the extraordinary events

in Russia in recent days as Yvgeny Progogsian, the head of the Wagner private military company

launched effectively a mutiny in Russia, leading a convoy of military vehicles in a movement

toward Moscow before suddenly backing

down. There is so much in this series of events that warrants examination, and General Hodges

joined me for a quick discussion to share some of his thoughts. Before we get to it, as always,

a couple quick notes. First, if you're not yet subscribed to the MWI podcast, you can find it on

Apple Podcast, Stitcher,

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