Hi, this is Against Everyone with Connor Habib, a weekly podcast featuring my conversations with

countercultural figures and presenting complex, philosophical, spiritual, and political ideas in an engaging and accessible way.

Friends, we have a really urgent question ahead of us and maybe a surprising one, which is, isn't enough to just think new thoughts

to change the world.

What do I mean by that?

I mean, is it a matter of having the right knowledge, the right perspective, the right

information, the right education around ideas to get us to where we need to go, given all the huge changes

that seem to be underway.

I've got to say that I think the answer is unfortunate, given the urgency of our times.

That answer is absolutely not. We think that if we get enough information and knowledge and et cetera, et cetera,

that we'll get it right, but it's not thought that matters in this urgent way

if we want to transform the world.

It's thinking itself.

What we need to do is change thinking.

And that's a completely different task and one that's much more difficult than changing thought.

Thinking is the action, the activity that thought comes out of,

that thought is produced by or cast off of.

So I've got to say that this task of changing our thinking is also much more gratifying

and powerful and transformative than trying to change thought.

There aren't a lot of people, even the most profound philosophers and political theorists and activists of our time aren't really

up to this task. So I needed to find somebody to talk about changing thinking with on the show.

And I knew that one of the most capable and thinking filled people to talk about this,

...