So a number of books have been released this summer attempting to recap Donald Trump's unpredictable presidency.

One of the authors taking on this challenge is Michael Bender, senior White House reporter for the Wall Street Journal.

Bender covered the entirety of the Trump White House and the 2020 campaign.

His latest book called, Frankly, We Did Win This Election, The Inside Story of how Trump Lost was released this July.

He joins me now for his untold story. Michael, good to have you with us today.

Hi, Martha. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. You know, I mean, it is, it's a fascinating

story. Any way you slice it. And I think that historians are going to go back and look at this period

with a great deal of interest. I think it's unlike any, you know, election and post-presidency that we've ever seen

in many, many ways. So, you know, what, tell me a little bit, what are the, I guess one of the

questions that I have, and I've heard a few of the interviews that you've done on this,

one of the questions that I have is, you know, do you think that before the election,

President Trump thought he was going to win?

Yes. I 100% do. I mean, you know, he's been, he had spent what, not just a year, but, but five years, going back to 2015 and 2016, telling all of us that the only way he could possibly lose an election was by fraud, right?

Like, I don't think that he necessarily believed that every step of the way for the last five

years. But I am convinced that by by Election Day, November 3rd of 2020, that he,

there was not a doubt in his mind that he was going to win.

But there were concerns.

Like, don't you think in the camp there were concerns about some of the polls, there were

concerns, obviously, about COVID, about whether or not he could pull it off.

And he was concerned about Biden, you know, I think early on, right?

Yeah, no question.

I mean, he should, he should not have been that, obviously, should not, should not have been that sure of himself, but he had been told, I mean, I detailed this in the book.

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