Welcome to Talking Fed's one-on-one, deep-dive discussions with national figures about the most fascinating

and consequential issues defining our culture and shaping our lives. I'm your host, Harry Littman. We're often seized by the

feeling that we are living in times of unprecedented danger to democracy and democratic rule,

and yet opponents of that view, who I think are fewer and fewer, point out that there's always

been a bare-knuckles aspect to politics and some

very ruthless actors. I'm really pleased to welcome today one of the most brilliant critics of

and participants in the working of the nation's politics in my lifetime. Former Representative

Barney Frank's a legendary congressman

from Massachusetts. He served in the House for 32 years from 1981 to 2013. He was the leader on a

wide range of causes, especially in fighting discrimination. And he helped overhaul the U.S. banking system

after the 2008 crash with the Dodd-Frank Act. We made history when he married his long-time

partner and became the first sitting U.S. representative in a same-sex marriage. Since leaving

politics, Frank has been a TV news

contributor, a political columnist, a public speaker, and he's published a great memoir, Frank,

a life in politics from the great society to same-sex marriage. All your constituents famously

called you Barney before anyone was on a first name basis,

so I hope I can do the same.

Of course.

All right.

Well, Barney, thank you.

And let's start, you know, with the present day and the overall question of how Trump's tenure compares with those of his predecessors.

You know, just the last few days, he's talked about paying himself

...