I'm not pulling on my driveway. We all know what that means.

It's time for another drive to work, coronavirus edition.

So I've been doing this fun thing where I've been inviting designers new and old to come talk about sets we worked on together.

So today I have Tom Lippelli. Hey Tom.

Hello.

And we're going to talk about Dark Ascension.

That's Tom that I led the design.

Tom led the development.

But before we jump into that, before we get, there's a story, your name comes up.

There's one story where your name comes up more than any of stories that I tell,

which is the creation of the double face cards as in Inistrade.

So I would love to tell your side of story.

What is your version of how that came to be?

So I know a lot of people hate these things.

I think they are, there's a lot of things in magic where I think they are basically inevitable.

No matter how much you do or don't like them, they must happen.

I think, Mark, you've described magic as a shark.

It must keep moving or it will die.

And all card games eventually will have double-faced cards if they live long enough, is my strong opinion.

Okay, but how, what's your version of the story of how they came to be in the set?

Yeah, so, well, they came about in Dual Masters because the Japanese marketing team was like,

hey, a thing we could do that would make us look neat is double-faced cards.

...